[Sat 28 Jul, 09:31]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
Travel ban to Cuba - (15 replies)

So the U.S. House of representatives voted 240-184 to lift the travel ban to Cuba for U.S. citizens?

Some people seem to think that lifting the travel ban by the US will suddenly solve all the economic problems for Cuba. That won't happen! The Cuban ills go deeper than that.

Tourism is already the number one source of income for Cuba. Most Cuban hotels now have a fairly decent occupancy rate with the US restrictions in place. The US tourist and the American dollar will probably not alter the Cuban economy that greatly.

US citizens who are sufficiently venturesome to ignore the ban are already going to Cuba, but their dollars are not the salvation for the Cuban people. Neither are the dollars of the future tourists from the US.

What would the REAL impact be for Cuba if the US travel ban were lifted? Would Cuba suddenly be the IN place to go on spring break for the college and high school kids who are now flocking to Florida, Texas, Cancun and the Bahamas? Would it become the destination of choice for the retired Canadian 'Snow Birds' who now migrate to Florida to pass the winter and complain about everything local because "We don't do it like this back home!"

I would certainly like to see the embargo lifted inorder for the Cubans to gain access to US produced goods such as food, medicines, construction materials, farm products, ad infinitum, at a much cheaper cost, but I really question how much better the Cuban people would be without the US travel ban and WITH the ready availability of $199 flights from all over the southeast to Cuba. Do you REALLY believe the Cuban people would be better off? (More inside #1)


[Sat 28 Jul, 09:56]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
1. Continued...

It's unfortunate and discouraging that the US does have a ban on travel to Cuba. It's unfair to the average person who might want to visit.

However from a purely selfish standpoint, the US citizen who is already going to Cuba will have very little to gain and very much to lose when/if the travel ban is lifted.

I'm not convinced that the Cuban people and the Cuban economy will have that much to gain. The influx of travelers from other countries has already had a pronounced impact, and from the standpoint of many people, that impact has not been all positive.

My personal view of the possibility of lifting the imbargo is that the attempt will have rough sledding in the U.S. senate. There are some old 'mossbacks and wool hats' that still have an undue amount of influence in the senate.


[Sat 28 Jul, 11:41]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
2. no way

I just skimmed your post, but you've got to be kidding !

An American tourist who cares about the Cubans will benefit from having the embargo lifted by seeing their lives improved in terms of access to embargo restricted items and the cash flow from tourism. Cuba estimates that it's lost 16 billion from the embargo. 1-10 million tourists will go every year from the States. If the current government or a variation of it remains in place, there won't be spring break like tourism. Cuba encourage family tourism, and tries to contain it somewhat in resort areas. They are well aware of the impact - and the trade off of tourist cash inflow.


[Sat 28 Jul, 11:49]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
3. They will benefit

But it will not be heaven coming there. But improvement, certainly.

Lift the meanless boycot!!!


[Sat 28 Jul, 12:18]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
4. Lifting the Embargo

Lifting the US travel ban alone isn't going to dramatically impact the standard of living for most Cubans. It would simply introduce more of the same type of tourists who are already travelling there looking for a cheap Caribbean vacation--Cubans who don't make a living off tourists now are at best apathetic about the influx of foreigners and view tourism as a necessary evil. I think what the current government fears with a relaxation of the
embargo is US domination of the Cuban economy, which is what the situation was during the first half of the 20th Century. When the Soviet Bloc was supporting the economy the embargo wasn't important. Now that Cuba is truly on its own it has much more significance. Cubans I know realize that without the embargo, US dominance of the economy is a real possibility. Most seem willing to trade off the relative independence they have now for the benefits they would get in return. I don't though think the government sees it that way.


[Sat 28 Jul, 13:37]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
5. Visits to the Cuban Gulag by leftists American

Why waste your energy on a stupid discussion like this,,,? It's simply not going to happen. Period. Fidel Castro will probably die drinking Mexican bottled Coca-Cola, but he will certainly never see a lifting of the U.S. travel ban to the island. Not during his lifetime.
It's getting repetitive. If you want to visit the Cuban Gulag you can do so but at your on risk....and believe me the odds of you getting caught in the act are growing day by day. So think about it and stop daydreaming...!!


[Sat 28 Jul, 14:24]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
6. Kidding about what yenifer?

I'm very much in the dark yenifer as to the specifics when you say "'ve got to be kidding!" Perhaps we could have a more meaningful dialogue if you did more than skim my post. What specific comments did you have in mind?

Your eagerness to respond may have prevented your understanding what I was really saying in my post. The reply from altahabana seems to indicate that he understood my point. I find nothing in his reply with which I would disagree. His first two sentences I strongly support.

You state that "Cuba encourages family tourism." Could you offer a few examples which would support that statement? I have found very little in my twenty plus trips to Cuba from 1995 to 2001 that would cause me to agree with that statement.

I find Cuba's promotion of tourism to be directed more toward the appeal of sun, sand, and sex. Many of their more apparent promotions have stressed sensuality and the appeal of scantily clad, beautiful Latin women.

Have you been to Cuba yenifer? Have you read the magazine "Sol y Son" which is found on most Cuban flights? Can you honestly say that you feel Cuba is making a valid attempt to encourage family tourism when you analyze the appeal being made in the magazine? Perhaps you and I have not seen the same promotional materials.

You might wish to look at "The Cuba Handbook" by Christopher Baker. It's one of the best, largest, and most comprehensive guide books on Cuba. In fact, it is my favorite of all that I have read.

While discussing tourism, Baker says: "The Cuban government has been slow to admit that prostitution is prevalent (some critics even claim that the government sponsored Cuba's image as a cheap-sex paradise to kick-start tourism)." That hardly comes across as a promotion of family tourism.

In 1984 Cuba had 207,000 tourists. They were hoping for 2.5 million by the end of 2000. The tourist dollars have done much to improve the Cuban economy, but the effects have been slow to trickle down to the average Cuban.

You say that by lifting the embargo the Cubans would see their lives improved in terms of access to embargo restricted items. Most of my Cuban friends have open access to embargo restricrted items such as cokes, Kodak film, US produced candy and food items. They just don't have the U$ dollars with which to buy those items.

My best friend in Cuba is a surgeon who makes 500 pesos per month. That's roughly the equivalent of $25 US. He can't buy many 75 or 80 cent beers on that salary. Many tourist dollars are going into Cuba, but my friend has limited access to them.

Admittedly, lifting the US embargo would mean a great influx of US tourist dollars, but the average Cuban would continue to be denied access to most of those dollars.Some would trickle down to the owners of paladares and casas, but the Cuban government continues to raise the 'tax' for those operating them.

The lady from whom I rent an apartment pays $250 per month of her tourist dollars to the government. She has to pay that whether she rents the apartment or not. At least that's the story she wants me to believe. I believe her!

Yenifer, if you reread my post with the intent to understand rather than the rush to respond, perhaps our disagreement is not as great as you initially thought.


[Sat 28 Jul, 14:33]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
7. end of travel ban

Whoa ! Not so fast withthe ending of the ban stuff.
It still has to be passed by the Senate and signed by the president before it ends....if it ends.


[Sat 28 Jul, 16:17]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
8. Embargo

OPoster, why are you comparing Cuba to New Jersey? Cuba is a socialist state. Mission is far different than capitalism. Althought Cuba's socialism is far from perfect, there are many countries where capitalism has failed. Many.

Wild Bill

[Sat 28 Jul, 21:03]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
9. Forget it! It won't happen!

Unlikely the Senate will pass it.

Bush HAS to veto it - The Miami Cubans elected him and his brother needs to get re-eleacted . Forget it.

Moreover, the problem ISN't one sided. Clinton made a lot of overtures and every time Castro would reject it.

Wake up - the major problem in Cuba ISN't the embargo - the trade with every country in the world except the US. The problem is the same economic policy that destroyed Russias economy.

But the US has conveniently given Fidel an excuse - he just blames all the screw-ups on the US


[Sun 29 Jul, 08:32]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
10. Good points WBill

You and the original poster seem to be drinking from the same glass Wildbill. Neither of you think the bill has any chance of flying. I agree. Bush will never have to veto it, because it will never pass in the senate.


[Mon 30 Jul, 01:55]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
11. veto

Hi Wild Bill, being European and not very well informed I don't understand this remark: "Bush HAS to veto it - The Miami Cubans elected him and his brother needs to get re-eleacted . Forget it." Please explain the situation with the Miami Cubans?

Wild Bill

[Mon 30 Jul, 07:21]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
12. Answer to mcsjeen

Most immirants from Latin countries to the US vot Democrat EXCEPT Cubans because:
1. Kennedy, a Democrat , didn't allow air cover for the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba in 1961 , so they blame the failure on him.

2. Clinton , a Democrat, sent Elian home to Cuba.

The Cubans - about 1,000,000 of them - voted as a block for Bush AND HE NEEDED THEM! He won Florida by 600 votes and that got him elected.

Hialeah Herve

[Mon 30 Jul, 08:11]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
13. Anticuban Retard-a-thon?

Who's the insider (Cojonudo, the archracist? Gracie? laSurlyCaca?) who insists the DEMOCRATIC-led Senate won't vote to lift the Travel restrictions? These miami-dade wackos think they know better?

Here is an excerpt from the newswires - and not some flaky rightwing junk (a la SnoozeMaxx). Read what Sen. Trent Lott said last week, about "REALITY":

Even Senate Republican leader Trent Lott of Mississippi, a staunch supporter of the trade sanctions, said the Senate may have to bow to reality and agree with the House to lift at least the travel ban portion of the sanctions.

``What I've always opposed is just lifting the sanctions. People are traveling there now,'' Lott told Reuters.

Email your senators to support ending the Cuba Travel Restriction for all americans. Go to this link :


[Tue 31 Jul, 07:10]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
14. #12

Okay, now I understand why they voted for Bush, but wouldn't the Miami Cubans want the trade embargo to be lifted?

Hialeah Herve

[Tue 31 Jul, 07:26]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
15. Curious thing

Re: Kennedy.

The Miami Cubans loathe Sen. Kennedy (liberal, pro-rapproachment), but pour money into his son's campaign coffers. (Rep. Patrick Kennedy - D-RI) Why? Patrick Kennedy is virulently anti-Fidel.

Who the Miami Cubans like or dislike pretty much follows the familiar pattern: as moderately affluent white immigrants vote Republican, those who consider themselves 'refugees from communism' do even more so. Plus, they have historically voted as a bloc (extraordinarily so): that's only now starting to change.