[Sun 12 Aug, 01:53]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
Ernesto Guevara - (8 replies)

I've been wondering something for a while. I was hoping to hear from some intelligent people, thus the reason why I posted here.
My first question consists of two parts; how do you feel and what do you think of Ernesto "Che" Guevara? My second Question
is; do you see Che as the archetype for modern revolutionaries, no matter the cause (ie communism or not)? And could he be
described as the prototypical revolutionary or guerilla leader? Much Respect.


[Sun 12 Aug, 06:32]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
1. Che?

You mean that fag Argentine doctor who used to bend over backwards to please the troops in the Sierra Maestra back in '58? I wash my car with my Che T-shirt.


[Sun 12 Aug, 10:10]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
2. It's a fact = Che was a very promiscuous gay

t's a fact = Che was a very promiscuous gay who was always fighting with his lovers.

He just couldn't stick to one partner. What a pity, and what a waste of life. His life would have been so much better if he wasn't so foolish, and inconsiderate.


[Sun 12 Aug, 12:27]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
3. Che

He is unquestionably the leading martyr for revolutionary causes. His image is everywhere in Cuba. If you're interested in reading a pretty even handed biography about him in English I would suggest "Che Guevara--A Revolutionary Life" by Jon Anderson published by Grove Press. The gay references are new to me but then again...? Maybe the other responders are mistaking him for Raul.


[Sun 12 Aug, 16:44]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
4. Che

You ask what I think of Che. Well, in my humble opinion, Che still is an important figure. I am in my 40ies and must admit to being VERY proud, when I found that my daughter had a picture of the guy as a screensaver. You see, Che as a symbol of revolution is not to be underestimated. He may have been a somewhat quijotic figure, but only history will tell how he will be percieved in four or five generations. I believe he will be seen as an important catalyst in a struggle for at better world. (I have actually read a number of his writings and liked his “Man and socialism in Cuba” very much).
I think his internationalist message is even more important today than in the sixties. More children are dying of hunger now than at time, the rich countries and the trans-national countries are bleeding the south dry with the help of local elites and the much taunted market economy has brought untold misery to hundreds of millions of people all over the world. Ches homeland Argentine is a good case in point. A few years ago the international bankers applauded when the former president privatized large parts of the economy and tied the peso to the dollar. Today Argentina is a country in free fall, where not even the middle class is assured of three square meals a day.
In the 80ies the right in Latin America and the US government was in war with the leftist sandinista government in Nicaragua. Well, the sandinistas fell after years of war - only to be followed by a cleptocracy which has kept half of all children outside the school system, and just as many without any contact with the health system. (I wonder where all the people who were against the sandinistas are today when hunger has returned to the streets of Central America).
That is another problem: I guess that even among the right, there must be a sense, that the more than 20.000 children who die of starvation every day is not only immoral, but also a severe threat to the security of the whole planet. However I have not seen any real actions from the leading prophets of the market economy, which could solve those problems. I have not seen any outcry that this is a scandal and a blot on humanity.
This is why Che is still hanging on posters in my city. Because in order to achieve a minimum of social justice, you have to rebel. And I am almost certain, that a new global rebellion against the globalization is brewing. It is still in its infancy, but it is getting stronger. And Che is one of the symbols of that rebellion.
It could have been more coherent, but I am dead tired.

To the previous posters - if the only thing you can come up with is his homosexuality, it aint even a nice try. Frankly the exiled Cubans I have met in Miami are a corrupt bunch of two-tongued amorals. Why is Miami the biggest entry point for dope? Why are the exile cubans so racist? Is it a coincidence, that electoral fraud has become a fact of life in Miami?


[Sun 12 Aug, 18:19]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
5. Che

Che, quite obviously, is the ONLY productive revolutionary of the 20th century. I think the idealism of the era had much to do with his success however, there have been many who followed in his footsteps with differing results.

The man was obviously a great military leader . . . who should have stayed put and enjoyed the fruits of his efforts instead of travelling abroad and eventually dying as a result of his mercenary escapades. <smile>
But you can't keep a good soldier of fortune down, can you? No matter where they're from, no matter what they believe or to a lesser extent . . .no matter what their sexuality may be. Ignore the assholes . . .Che is, was and, will continue to be a legitimate hero to the people of Cuba. They needed one and, they got one.
God bless them.


[Sun 12 Aug, 21:20]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
6. che

che was a killer.everybody knows its not nice to kill people.


[Sun 12 Aug, 21:39]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
7. Che

It's just my impression but I think most Cubans who embrace the revolution have a lot more warm and fuzzy feelings about Fidel and Camilio Cienfuegos than Che. The Anderson bio that I referenced earlier is really quite good and anyone who's interested in him should read it. I still don't know where the gay references are coming from--not that it really matters.


[Mon 13 Aug, 05:29]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
8. Che

Agree with Altahabana's recommendation of John Lee Anderson's book - it was reading this that finally let myself be talked into spending some time in Cuba. To this day, definitely the best biography I've ever read.

My opinion of the revolution was jaded quite a bit after getting out to Cuba - everyone I spoke to was 'careful' in their compliments about Fidel, but they seemed to come alive when chatting about Che and Camilo. My opinion is that those two really believed in what they were fighting for - freedom, not power. And unfortunately, it ended up the wrong way round for the island.

Much as though I loved visiting Cuba the way it is, the way people have to live in a country that could be doing so well, is very wrong. Although opening up to capitalism will undoubtedly have the usual severe problems, it's got to be better on the whole than the poverty and fear that people live in at the moment.

I'd like to think if he was still around he'd be smart enough, and big enough, to realise his Revolution didn't pan out as planned, and to consider whatever was best for the people.

Communism - great idea. Shame human's are greedy by nature and only capitalism actually seems to work.