[Wed 12 Sep, 01:22]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
WTC - (18 replies)

Cuba has offered humanitarian help to support the terror victims of NY and Washington. It is right from the humanitarian point of view.
Do you think this is how that small country, having been opressed by it's giant neighbour for over 40 years, should act, from the political point of view?
Does an average US-citizen care?


[Wed 12 Sep, 03:34]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
1. WTC

thats just another one of castro's bluffs to make himself look good to other countries.they know we don't need their help so it makes it easier to make that offer.if things get too cozy between the U.S. and Cuba, castro will be blowing up some planes too.the last thing he wants is the embargo lifted.thats what kept in power for so long.


[Wed 12 Sep, 05:08]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
2. True,but?

Maybe the rubicon has been crossed as the younger generation of Cuban leaders asserts itself. The final chapter of East Germany was a bit similar, although the popular protest does not seem to apply to Cuba.

Still, reapprochement will happen one day,and it could be now, maybe not yet.


[Wed 12 Sep, 05:15]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
3. Castro

What, we should openly accept help from a supporter of terrorism? I don't think so. He's just trying to soften people up.


[Wed 12 Sep, 08:04]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
4. Yes

Yes he's doing what he should do to make himself and his country look good as supporters of humanitarian issues, its the sensible thing to do, he's not stupid to behave like an enemy at this time.


[Wed 12 Sep, 08:19]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
5. Castro, an Enemy of Terror?

Is this the same Castro who actively supports the IRA, ETA and the Colombian guerrillas? The same Castro whose flunky newspaper, Granma, blamed the outcome of the 1967 Mideast war on the "fact" that the Israeli army was led by ex-Nazi generals?


[Wed 12 Sep, 08:43]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
6. Yeah, the Same Castro

Yes, and he is the same Maximum Leader who wae the trainer and banker for the Montonero guerillas of Argentina, who sent to Cuba for safekeeping all the cash they "earned" through kidnappings and bank robberies. Some humanitarina, this guy.


[Wed 12 Sep, 09:53]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
7. Yeah but,

how many of you know why the US even has a beef with Cuba in the first place? I will be checking back to see how many of you know the real facts, and how many have been the subject of brainwashing. Should be interesting.


[Wed 12 Sep, 10:09]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
8. Right #7

All the foreigners gave Castro a gift of their hotels, estates, investments, etc.. Nothing was confiscated. It wasn't cuban cigars you've been smoking.


[Wed 12 Sep, 10:17]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
9. not worth responding now

due to the nature of the previous responses, you're legitimate question has been thrown away by a bunch of trolls.

A "troll" in this case is anyone who 1) equate the WTC tragedy with Castro's past actions, 2) say Castro is as bad as the terrorists behind the WTC, 3) A blind to the terrorist actions the US has committed against Cuba, 4) Call Cuba's humanitarian endeavors and sincere condolences a "bluff".
So, dawl, you're correct, most people here are brainwashed trolls (there's nothing like a terrorist action to fuel hawkish warmongering and xenophobia).

To attempt at a real answer, yes, I think Cuba's offerings to help the US are real. Remember, that's the same Cuba that has taken thousands of "Chernobyl kids" to treat free of charge, the same Cuba that was the FIRST to send doctors and medics to Nicaragua after Hurrican Mitch struck, the same Cuba that trains hundreds of doctors from around the world for free (oh yeah, the same Cuba that has an infant mortality rate equal to, and in some cases lower than, the US), and the same Cuba that had one of it's airliners blown up in the Carribean a few years back (but I won't go pointing fingers).

Of course, if you scoff and are raging red for me defending Cuba right now, maybe you'll side with these folks:
(specifically the story about hate calls to Arab-Americans)


[Wed 12 Sep, 15:54]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
10. PLEASE!!!

Humanitarian aid from Cuba??? Does Castro even know he definition of these words? How about offering some humanitarian aid to his own people! This is the same man who launders Colombian drug money, supports the IRA, and travels the world asking rogue nations for handouts. I would not be a bit suptrised if Osama Bin Laden was hiding out in Havana!


[Wed 12 Sep, 16:37]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
11. Cuba's reaction

I think the response was for three reasons, in this order: (1) It was a sincere expression of sympathy for what most people and governments would view as a horrific event; (2) the US Congress is about to repeal the travel ban and perhaps cut back on the embargo and any statement supporting the action would absolutely have killed that; and (3) the Cuban government didn't want to the US to think they had any role in aiding those who did this.


[Wed 12 Sep, 17:10]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
12. cuba aid

they offer all this aid because it does'nt cost much.the U.S. won't accept slave labor.


[Thu 13 Sep, 00:46]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
13. Aid

Cuba has and still is providing aid to other Caribbean countries, Haiti for example(doctors and medical supplies)


[Thu 13 Sep, 03:23]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
14. shut up for a moment...

..and think about the victims in usa.

"I would not be a bit suptrised if Osama Bin Laden was hiding out in Havana!"

this kind of hate is the reason why more and more us-people will not longer support exil-cubanos.
people from all over the world are standing together in this moment. but there is no place for fanatics between them.


[Thu 13 Sep, 05:32]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
15. Cuba's Response

I am sure the bulk of Cuban citizens are truly saddened by this tragedy just like the rest of the civilized world. However, for Fidel Castro to offer aid is a slap in the US's face.

How could anybody take seriously a leader who has friendly visits with the leadership of Libya, Iraq, and other nations who are the source of this type of terrorism, and openly supports functional terrorist groups?

I think he is just finally realizing how vain his life has been. At least he got in a good jab at the US in at the end of his speech. Don't thhink for a moment he's gone completely soft. The old goat still has a few tricks left.


[Thu 13 Sep, 11:10]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
16. Yarrrrrr

#10=brainwashed and ignorant
#12-"the US won't accept slave labour"? That's the best one I've heard yet!! Well then, you all better stop shopping at Walmart!

Here's a little hint to all of you who couldn't answer my question: JFK and the mob.

Now let's see how many of you can get it.

For the record, my deepest sympaties to anyone affected by this tragedy. However, I haven't spoken to anyone who was really surprised by Tuesday's events. I hate to say it, but I've seen this coming for years.


[Thu 13 Sep, 15:15]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
17. Cuba

the reason the U.S. has a beef with Cuba are two reasons.mainly because of the Cuban American cry babies and because of the businesses and property lost. JFK and the mob were connected.thats how he got elected president.therefore he was pissed off when Fidel and his boys booted the mob out of Cuba.Fidel did good in the beginning but realized he had to be ruthless to stay in power.the only way he was able do that was to go commie.communism is the best way to control people wether you are a true marxist or not.Fidel is not a true Marxist.Fidel only cares about Fidel.


[Thu 13 Sep, 15:28]
PST (Gumly Gumly -17)
18. JFK, nude w/3 mulattas @ the Comodoro!

Mob boss Trafficante filmed Senator Kennedy humping three hookers in his Havana hotel, does that presidential suite still have a two-way mirror? Who kept the pornos?

Sending Trucks to Castro, 1959
On January 1, 1959, Castro seized power in Cuba and arrested Santos Trafficante, the Mafia Chief in Cuba. Until that time, the Communists, not the Castroites, had before that time been smuggling narcotics. Two good books on this Communist-Castroite rivalry are Maurice Halperin's "The Taming of Fidel Castro" and Mario Llerena's "The Unsuspected Revolution." Halperin describes how the Castroites discredited and even legally charged the Communists for the past narcotics trading.

The Mafia had been exporting weapons and importing narcotics from the Cuban Communists, not the Cuban Castroites. Trafficante told the HSCA that he simply had not expected Castro's victory. Therefore, a new deal had to be negotiated.

In the following weeks, Ruby, as a major smuggler, tried to intercede through Robert McKeown, who had been smuggling weapons to the Castro forces. Ruby asked McKeown to write a personal letter of introduction to Castro or otherwise help free Trafficante. In return, Ruby has admitted, Ruby tried to send jeeps and "other similar equipment" to Castro (Hall (C. Ray) Exhibit No. 3):

[quote] Ruby volunteered that some years ago, "at a time when Castro was popular in the United States," he read of an individual [McKeown] in the vicinity of Houston, Texas, having been engaged in "gun running to Castro." He said he attempted by telephone to get in touch with this individual, as he had in mind "making a buck" by possibly acquiring some jeeps or other similar equipment which he might sell to persons interested in their importation to Cuba. He said nothing came of this. He said he had never attended any meetings concerned with "gun running," smuggling of persons in or out of Cuba or otherwise in relation to Cuban affairs. [unquote]

On April 27, Castro himself visited McKeown in Houston and offered McKeown a post in the Cuban government. However, McKeown turned down the offer because he was on probation for gun-running and therefore could not leave the United States.

Apparently at this meeting, Castro agreed to some kind of ransom terms for Trafficante, but the Mafia suffered a major fiasco in trying to meet them. In early May,1959, the Mafia stole $8.5 million from a Canadian bank and also stole a large number of Arms from the Ohio National Guard. A police investigation showed that Rothman had spent $6,000 of the money to rent airplanes to smuggle the arms to Castro's forces in Cuba. On July 3, Rothman was arrested for this series of crimes.

During this period, Ruby was heavily involved in these negotiations. Many people who have studies Ruby's life have assumed he was working for the Mafia, but perhaps he was representing other clients instead or in addition. In retrospect, we should consider that this truck business would also be useful to the Teamsters labor union and to the CIA. The overthrow of Batista dictatorship seemed to open the possibility for the rapid development of labor unions like the Teamsters in Cuba. It is also worth noting that US labor unions (especially for example the AFL-CIO) cooperated closely with the CIA's efforts to plant its own agents in foreign countries. The Teamsters might well have had a similar relationship with the CIA. Therefore, the role of the Mafia in Ruby's activities then might have been only secondary or even tertiary.

Anyway, on April 27, when Castro had visited Houston, Ruby rented a mysterious safe deposit, which he accessed several times during that summer. He was also called in for questioning by the FBI several times, starting on April 28. In August, 1959, David Ferrie was put under 24-hour surveillance in Miami for gun running. In September 1959, Ruby traveled to Cuba twice, supposedly to visit Trafficante in prison on the pretense of visiting McWillie, who was now working at another Trafficante casino in the Capri Hotel in Havana.

In prison with Trafficante was a Soviet agent named John Wilson, who was at least observing and possibly had also participated in all this. I quote from a book called Who Was Jack Ruby (pp 132-134) by Seth Kantor:

[quote] The CIA file on him went back to 1951....Wilson, well educated at Oxford University, had been born in Liverpool, December 29, 1916, had reached Chile on January 28, 1939 [apparently a refugee of the Spanish Civil War], from Buenos Aires, and "was a contact of one Bert Sucharov, a suspected Soviet agent in Santiago, Chile."

Wilson was outspoken as a pro-communist and foe of the United States. He posed occasionally as a British Royal Air Force captain in uniform and two attempts by the British embassy to have him expelled from Chile failed -- after Wilson apparently convinced authorities inside the embassy that he had "worked on a special mission for the British government in Germany, Egypt, and Turkey at the close of World War II."

The CIA source in Chile pegged John Wilson as "very probably an intelligence agent." Wilson always seemed to have a lot of money without an apparent income. he held UN press pass no. 287, issued in Santiago, and another pass from the Chilean secret police which allowed him special access.

At the end of June, 1959, Wilson and three Americans were arrested in a suburb of Havana as they planned to carry out a sneak bomb raid on Nicaragua, using three airplanes and a small volunteer attack force. Fidel Castro had nothing to do with the attack plans and ordered Wilson and the other ringleaders arrested; thus John Wilson was in jail at the time of the Ruby visit.

In prison in Cuba, Wilson says he met an American gangster gambler named Santos [Trafficante] who could not return to the USA because there were several indictments outstanding against him. Instead, he preferred to live in relative luxury in a Cuban prison. While Santos was in prison, Wilson says, Santos was visited frequently by an American gangster type named Ruby. Inexplicably, one of Ruby's notebooks had this entry, which Dallas police located on the day Oswald was shot: "October 29, 1963 -- John Wilson -- bond." The FBI checked police and sheriff's records in Dallas to see if a John Wilson had made bond. The FBI also consulted two different private attorneys in Dallas whose names were John Wilsn, but who had never had dealings with Ruby. The FBI said it found no reason for the notebook entry. [unquote]

I want to specially point out a couple of elements of this situation. First, Wilson's story of how he himself was imprisoned is fishy. What sense was there in flying three small airplanes to Nicaragua to drop a few bombs? Perhaps this was some kind of smuggling flight that was prevented at the last minute.

Second, Trafficante's imprisonment seems to be somewhat of a hoax. Trafficante himself testified to the Select Committe on Assassinations that he was released from prison and left Cuba in August 1959. He then returned to Cuba to defend himself in a trial during October-November 1959 and then voluntarily returned to his Cuban "prison." (HSCA, Vol 5, pg 355). He also testified (pg 367) that his own lawyer's brother later became the Minister of Sports in Communist Cuba.

I think that Trafficante was really negotiating an agreement for the Mafia to give up its gambling interests in Cuba in return for Cuban cooperation in continuing the Mafia's narcotics-weapons smuggling network in Latin America. Trafficante returned to the United States again in early 1960.

As noted earlier, Ruby had apparently committed himself to send trucks to Cuba in order to free Trafficante from prison in August 1959, but then said that he never sent any trucks. Would Castro have suffered such a double-cross and still allowed Trafficante to leave Cuba? Did anybody ever supply the trucks? It seems that in accordance with Ruby's negotiations, the trucks were supplied to Castro by Guy Banister.


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